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 Distinguishing Colors in German Stamps |
Gerry
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Dabei seit: 21.06.2010
Wohnort: Denver
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| Distinguishing Colors in German Stamps |
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Hello All:
I am thinking about getting back into stamp collecting. I like the detail in the specialized catalogs such as Michel's Deutschland-Spezial but I got frustrated when I couldn't tell the difference between variations. Sometimes these were of the color variety. I bought the Michel color guide and I have to say I cannot really see the difference between say karmin and rotkarmin in the guide.
Michel 115a (Bayern) has four color variations. It would really be nice to be able to tell them apart.
Is there a device one can buy that call tell the color of a stamp?
Thanks in advance.
Gerry
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21.06.2010 05:16 |
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KEN 
aktives Mitglied
Dabei seit: 07.10.2007
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Hello,
I would like to have such a device also.
My experience is:
Compare the colors, discuss with other stamp-freaks and suppose always the lower prized color.
KEN
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21.06.2010 06:43 |
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22028
Stamm Mitglied
Dabei seit: 06.11.2007
eBay-Name: 22028
Wohnort: Himmelstadt
Herkunft: Unterfranken
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Dear Gerry,
such a device, if in existence, would be extremely expensive. In addition, if the color output is not synchronized with the catalog listings it would be even useless.
I for my self, collecting Tibet put shades into my collection where I, myself, can differentiate a color shade from the other. Sub-sub-sub shades I ignore.
__________________
Tibet, Nepal-Klassische Ausgaben, Iran- Erstausgabe, Irak-Eisenbahnmarken 1928-1942, Irak-Zwangszuschlagsmarken Hochwasser 1967, Overland Mail Baghdad-Haifa, SCADTA-Provisorische Einschreibmarken der Ausgabe 1921, Kolumbien- Halbamtliche Ausgaben
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21.06.2010 14:55 |
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bayern klassisch
Stamm Mitglied
Dabei seit: 15.07.2007
Wohnort: deutschland
Herkunft: deutschland
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Oi mates.
Before you are going to look for shades, that only exist in catalogues for beginners like "Michel" or "Michel - Spezial", a catalog ignored by experts for many years, you´d better buy Peter Sem´s special - catalogues (www.peter-sem.de), that will really help you.
For the difficult to expertize older stamps, you can buy colour and plate - catalogues for little money, that are worth ten times the money, when you can buy a good color for the price of an average or cheap color.
Kind regards,
bayern klassisch (www.arge-bayern.net)
__________________
bayerische postgeschichte von 1806 bis 1875 - was sonst?
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21.06.2010 16:13 |
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doktorstamp
Stamm Mitglied
Dabei seit: 14.12.2005
eBay-Name: doktorstamp
Wohnort: Horsham
Herkunft: England
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Hi there
What Bayern Klassisch says is correct.
With regard to colours the only guides currently recognised are; The Oxford Dictionary of Colour, and the ASTI coding. Pantone produce an excellent guide, however again it is not calibrated to the catalogue.
None of the catalogue producers has aligned their colour definition with any of these, and periodically they (the names) change in the catalogues as well, just to add to the confusion.
Further confusion is caused during translation, the translation itself is correct, but what a German or an Englishman perceive as Magenta say, can vary.
A simple and not too expensive way is to construct comparison plates using the cheaper shades that have been previusly expertised, clearly if a stamp has no comparison to the cheaper shades, the chances are, it could be the expensive one.
A UV lamp can also be used to define some shades; for example they may both be red, but their chemical make up reacts differently under UV light.
Colour determination is a neverending saga, and what works for one may not for another. Vive le Difference!
kind regards
nigel
__________________
Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht
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21.06.2010 17:32 |
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Gerry
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Dabei seit: 21.06.2010
Wohnort: Denver
Themenstarter 
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Many thanks for the responses.
What is meant by a colour and plate - catalogue?
It seems that distinguishing colors is hard. What about paper qualities such as Michel 94 I and 94 II (Bayern). Is this something a forum can help with when it sees scans?
Thanks again,
Gerry
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21.06.2010 21:11 |
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bayern klassisch
Stamm Mitglied
Dabei seit: 15.07.2007
Wohnort: deutschland
Herkunft: deutschland
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Hello Gerry.
In this forum are about 20 collectors of Bavaria - just send a good scan (300 dpi) of your letters / stamps, you want to be examined (front - and reverse side please) and wait what is going to happen. 
Kind regards,
bayern klassisch
__________________
bayerische postgeschichte von 1806 bis 1875 - was sonst?
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21.06.2010 21:35 |
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infla-alec
aktives Mitglied
Dabei seit: 13.11.2006
eBay-Name: infla-alec
Wohnort: Glasgow, Schottland
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Hi Gerry,
As you have already been advised colours are a very difficult thing to be certain of based on scans only. That said there are several here if you upload high quality clear scans who can probably point you in the right direction.
Regards the Bayern 94 I (peacetime print) and II (wartime print) the easiest way to be certain you have a 94 I is to have a stamp with a 1914 or 1915 year date.
A colour and plate catalogue is something that has been printed, usually by a recognised expert from an area, showing the various colours and often with tips on how to tell which Plate some stamps are from. Such colour plates are not a guarantee that you have the better shade though when doing your own comparison. Only a competant expertizer can tell you which shade you have for sure.
No matter what someone tells you a colour is when you are buying, unless expertised and you are sure the expertizers mark is genuine do not spend big money on items that could be just a variation on a cheaper shade. That is why prior to selling it may be best to have the possible better shades expertized.
Best wishes,
Alec.
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22.06.2010 22:55 |
Dublettlisten (1)
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Gerry
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Dabei seit: 21.06.2010
Wohnort: Denver
Themenstarter
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Thanks again for the responses.
Can you give me an idea of what it costs to expertise a stamp?
Whether I can back into collecting or not I must say this, and similar sites, are excellent. It's like having a huge stamp club.
Gerry
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23.06.2010 06:40 |
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infla-alec
aktives Mitglied
Dabei seit: 13.11.2006
eBay-Name: infla-alec
Wohnort: Glasgow, Schottland
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Hi Gerry,
The exact fees charged by someone from the BPP can vary a little. But firstly there will be a minimum fee per shipment sent. I think this is around €10-20.
Of course you will also have to pay for return registered or insured mail.
Depending on the value of the item, if it is of a greater value one of three types of certificate may be awarded. Namely Attest, Befund and Kurzbefund.
For items below a certain catalogue value usually the stamp is just signed and for that a set fee is charged. I don't know about other areas but as an example if I was sending to Herr Weinbuch an Infla Michel 319 used. The things he would expertize are
1 Cancel: Is it genuine?
2.Type of printing: Platte or Walzendruck
3. Is it a better colour?
So for each of the three things he would look at, I would expect a fee of around €1 would be charged, making a total of €3. However if on examination the stamp turned out to be a Mi 319 Wb, and in good condition then he would issue one of the three certificates mentioned above. Assuming the stamp is in fault free an Attest would cost an extra €20.
BUT, because the stamp is of a higher value the standard fee of 4% of catalogue value would be expected.
I used to have an English version of the rules for BPP expertizing but sadly I don't have that anymore. Hopefully someone else can help on this point?
Please do not think that every stamp you own has to be expertized. It doesn't. With experience and special studies you can soon learn the better shades and varieties.
From this site alone you can get an opinion on virtually any German stamp or cover and then decide later if you want to submit for expertization.
Try showing something here you are not sure about and if you need help many of the English speakers here will try to help you I am sure.
Best wishes, Alec.
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23.06.2010 12:15 |
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doktorstamp
Stamm Mitglied
Dabei seit: 14.12.2005
eBay-Name: doktorstamp
Wohnort: Horsham
Herkunft: England
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What Alec says is intrinsically true, however there have been some small changes, mostly within the regulations concerning "signing", as this aspect of certification has been abused, not, I hasten, by the expertisers, but by less than honest dealers and sellers, who endeavour to replace or cover over shade markings in particular, have no fear, they always attempt to improve the value.
See this thread for an example
http://www.philaseiten.de/cgi-bin/index.pl?ST=2473&CP=0&F=1
Membership of one of the German societies generally has advantages in that stamps or covers submitted for expertising are carried out at preferential rates, however not all the expertisers grant this. They are not bound by any rules to do so either.
Many of the expertisers also speak English, but if you do feel the need to phone one of them, please consider the time difference before you get them out of bed.
To prevent cash going awry in the post you may consider opening a German bank account, in many countries this can be facilitated by going to the embassy or consulate. It also negates transfer fees (wire fees)
Within the States itself you may like to consider joining the GPS
(German Philatelic Society)
This is their new website, not all of it functions!!
http://www.gps.nu/
This site has many members, made up of beginners, returners to the hobby, advanced philatelists and experts etc.
You can also be helped with languages, the site is not restricted to German and English, a good number here speak other languages as well, although due to server restrictions the Cyrillic script will not display.
With regard to albums, I would suggest you re-start using a stock book, and when you have sufficient stamps/covers, you make up your own pages in an album system of your choosing.
kind regards
Nigel
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Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht
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23.06.2010 19:30 |
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